Iliad fragment found in Roman-era mummy

(thehistoryblog.com)

81 points | by wise_blood 2 days ago

6 comments

  • ajxs 2 hours ago
    In case anyone doesn't know, Oxyrhynchus is a major source of archaeological discoveries. Particularly ancient (Ptolemaic/Roman Egypt) papyrus fragments recovered from an ancient landfill on the outskirts of the city. Notably some of the earliest-known Christian textual artefacts were found there (the actual earliest fragments came from elsewhere in Egypt). It turns out that Egypt's hot and dry climate provides the perfect environment for their long-term preservation.
    • thaumasiotes 2 hours ago
      > It turns out that Egypt's hot and dry climate provides the perfect environment for their long-term preservation.

      Cold and dry would be just as good. It's the dryness that matters.

      • vlovich123 1 hour ago
        heat speeds up oxidation/ accelerates reactions but also decreases relative humidity for a constant moisture constant.
  • staplung 54 minutes ago
    Sadly, the article says nothing about how old the fragment is or how it compares to other early copies of the Iliad. Somewhat amazingly, the earliest complete copy of the Iliad is from around 950 C.E.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venetus_A

  • caycep 35 minutes ago
    for some reason this read like the "Headless Body in a Topless Bar" headline...maybe the antiquities equivalent
  • notorandit 2 hours ago
    I Hope more and more fragments of anything lost is found.

    The burn down of Alexandria library was a pity

    • bluGill 1 hour ago
      • wrqvrwvq 5 minutes ago
        People say this without any evidence. This ai-post is just regurgitating hn-thread "received wisdom". The evidence for the existence of a library is thin and hard to piece together, but points to more than a myth. I appreciate that people want real proof of anything, but dumping an ai-slop summary is hardly doing any better than accepting the existence of a large library.
    • jmyeet 1 hour ago
      This is a common refrain but in reality I'm not sure it made much difference. Papyrus just doesn't age well and most manuscripts from this era would've been on papyrus.

      What really decided what texts survived and what didn't was monastic traditions in in the Dark Ages and Middle Ages [1]. At this time, a monk might spend their entire life transcribing a particularly long manuscript. The materials were also expensive. So monasteries were selective in what got retain and unsurprisingly it skewed heavily to texts of religious significance and then to texts of significance to, say, Roman and Greek tradition and history given that monasteries were European.

      [1]: https://spokenpast.com/articles/medieval-monks-erased-preser...

      • jrumbut 31 minutes ago
        It was a little before that even.

        Greek was the language of most fields of learning besides law in the Roman Empire. But the Greeks themselves wrote works on these papyrus scrolls that crumbled fast, so anything not actively used by the Romans was quickly lost.

        There's a good chance that if the papyrus scrolls in any library (Alexandria or otherwise) weren't being copied regularly they were crumbling even before they burned or were lost to time for other reasons.

        Towards the end of the Roman Empire, a few philosophers took the time to transmit Greek knowledge in Latin as knowledge of Greek faded in western Europe. What these guys happened to translate was the basis of most of European learning in philosophy, math, and other fields for centuries.

        But they weren't monks (the most famous, Boethius, was not Christian either but a lot of later writers thought he was), the monks in scriptorium came later and grew slowly.

        St. Benedict said that monks should be taught to read and do so regularly, which required copying books, but he prioritized physical work (to create self-sufficient communities) and prayer. But future Benedictines responded to the incentives of the time and began scaling up the copying and doing less agricultural work as the years went on.

      • nonethewiser 1 hour ago
        Thanks for sharing. Maybe not as common as you think. I never heard that before.
  • horsh1 1 hour ago
    So why would they bury a man with a book?
    • tollenda 28 minutes ago
      It wasn't a whole book, it was cartonnage: scrap paper from discarded books and documents, assembled and glued together like papier-mâché. The cartonnage was used to make funerary masks and some other parts of the mummification apparatus. There is a whole subfield of archaeology that deals with deciphering and identifying book fragments found in the form of scrap paper in Greco-Roman era Egyptian mummies.
      • jrumbut 5 minutes ago
        I find it interesting how uncommon it is for this to yield new works.

        It seems like it's always the same handful of texts. Ancient readers liked what they liked and weren't out for variety it seems.

        At the same time, Juvenal has a whole satire about how everyone is trying their hand at writing books and mentions in another how booksellers are always getting new volumes.

        I spend way too much time pining for the chance to read the other parts of the Trojan Cycle, even though the ancient said they were much lower quality. Like your favorite show getting canceled.

    • AlexeyBrin 35 minutes ago
      Many cultures bury their dead with objects that the person enjoyed during their lifetime.

      This is present even today, I saw a burial in Eastern Europe where the parents put a game of chess and toys in the coffin. While it will do no good to the deceased my theory is that it is a way for the living to deal with the loss.

    • nextaccountic 49 minutes ago
      Maybe he liked that book? Not different from modern day burials

      https://notebookofghosts.com/2016/11/21/a-list-of-weird-thin...

    • callamdelaney 57 minutes ago
      Maybe it's more like how they used to wrap fish and chips in newspaper
    • quantummagic 1 hour ago
      Why do we bury men in a suit?
  • lostlogin 1 hour ago
    Imagine digging in that material. Tunnelling that out would be awful.